« Eat here, vote for Mike | Main | On `reasonable' doubt and jurors... »

November 17, 2005

The Kolb mistrial...

OK, it's the universal topic of conservation in town today, so if you're got something to say about the Sarah Kolb mistrial ruling yesterday, chatter away.

My only observation at the moment is that jury foreman Mark Hurty deserves a little credit for explaining why he didn't believe the state made its case against Ms. Kolb. He didn't have to do interviews, but he apparently was quite willing to talk to all the reporters who called. Mr. Hurty, incidentally, has a website/blog. It's at www.hurty.com.

Be civil.

Posted by jcb at November 17, 2005 10:29 AM

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Comments

Kudos to the Dispatch for keeping Hurty's political views out of this discussion. The other QC paper thought it relevant to print his past letters to the editor that had nothing to do with the trial and more to do with the last election cycle. That sends a good message to people called up to jury duty now doesn't it?

Joanne Reynolds is one of the nicest people I have ever known. It pains me to see this dragged out any more for her and her family. Hopefully the retrial will swiftly end with a guilty verdict so they can get this behind them.

Posted by: t at November 17, 2005 12:12 PM

From his website, one might presume that Hurty's philosophical outlook was a defense attorney's dream. Not to suggest that Hurty wouldn't have been capable of voting a guilty verdict, but that he would likely be very hesitant to lock someone away for a long time without being absolutely convinced of their guilt.

Dave Hoffman likely realized this and focused on the foreman, and quite effectively judging by the result.

Posted by: TID at November 17, 2005 12:33 PM

Oh, come on. Here's a guy with an obvious social agenda that he managed to slip by the prosecution.

Nobody could figure out -- least of all, the other 11 jurors -- why this guy seemed to have his own special version of reality. Then, suspicious moment number 2 -- the first being the mistrial -- the guy turns out to be delighted to grant interviews, when most people would be afraid of adverse community reaction.

Next, we find out he's an avid letter writer to local newspapers. There's nothing wrong with that -- but people who make it a habit sometimes have issues.

Next, we find he considers himself something of a writer, with his own blog, complete with "All you need is love" slogan and link to a do-gooder website.

I think we've all been had. If I were Judge Teros, I'd call the guy back in and ask him some very direct questions about what he said about his impartiality during voir dire and whether he has (and always has had) plans to cash in on this tragedy.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 17, 2005 02:03 PM

That's pretty cynical. But I 'spose you gotta think about it in a world where so many people are looking for their 15 minutes. Hmmm ... real life drama on "The Theatre of My Mind."

Mr. Hurty's certainly not dodging the publicity -- the opposite in fact. He says at www.hurty.com that he's going to post a "detailed explanation of the jury deliberation process" in the next day or two.

His post promising the explanation went up this morning. No one's commented -- on his site, I mean. I heard lots of commenting as I made my rounds today.



Posted by: jcb at November 17, 2005 09:24 PM

What I do agree with is the judge calling him back in because I do believe he had prior knowledge of the case in the media and lied and said he didn't. What I don't understand is he expects everyone to believe he didn't read anything about this case before stepping into the jury box- that is ridiculous. He expects everyone to believe he read and responded to several articles in the Q.C. Times but never an article about this case. He just wants attention. He should be charged with perjury for lying to the courts- I don't believe a word he says and the fact of the matter is -How many people who have been the juror to not be able to convict in a murder trial- tell everyone their name and possibly put himself and his family in harms way. Someone could become very upset and retaliate against him. I think he's a couple fries short of a Happy Meal if he didn't think their was sufficient evidence. What more did he need- only thing missing was a videotape of the crime!!??

Posted by: Carissa at November 18, 2005 09:24 AM

The dilwad's site is locked down from accepting comments. The theater of his mind indeed. What mind?

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 10:28 AM

more liberal stupidity

this needs to go national----of course Fox is the only one who would explore why this guy did what he did

Posted by: tdo at November 18, 2005 10:51 AM

http://www.qconline.com/archives/qco/sections.cgi?met!id!141604

I'm particularly interested in the 7th paragraph where he talks about people reacting badly when confronted. He seemed to do the exact opposite in this instance by announcing to the would that he derailed this case.

Posted by: Ethan at November 18, 2005 11:18 AM

Morning Folks. What we saw here on the Kolb Trial is the strange ways of the justice system. The same way we saw OJ get off, the same way we saw Michael Jackson go free, except this trial will be prosecuted again. We have to remember that this IS the way the system works with a
jury. It had to be a 12-0 vote on a murder trial. Nuthing else is acceptable. The problem we saw with this particulair jury is the time frame they were given to work. Jury can deliberate for weeks if they have to....15 hours? Is that really long enough? The whole point to deliberating to to talk amongst themselves and convince the outsiders of the majority vote to the majority thoughts. How many times did they actually vote? If you go by the media they say none actually. The whole process seems like it was flawed from time to judge ending it to voting. And that is indeed a mistrial. I do not agree with Mr "Hurt"y. But I also understand how the process works. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in trials, life and everything else. I actaully do not agree with Terronez for saying that Kolb did not actually do the killing, but instead settling for just saying she was involved. He should have stuck with his original plan of action putting Kolb as the Mastermind. As the trial progressed, he seemed to change the views. Falling into what Kolb and Hoffman wanted, which was to take the majority blame of of Kolb and pin it to Gregory, but including her in the role in a lesser way. By doing that , he created doubt in one persons mind and unfortunately in this case, that is all it takes. The bottom line to all of this is there is a young woman who is no longer with us and a family that has to gone through this and still has to endure more yet to come in at least 2 more trials. We all know who should be found guilty in this murder. Both Gregory and Kolb. No matter who actually did what. They both were actively involved in the murder form start to finish, and recruited another person to help out. In my opinoin I believe that Gaudet should stand trial for various felony charges also to put him in prison for a long peroid of time instead of till he is 21. I mean he admits to bringing a saw and literally sawing body parts off a human folks! The kids are all disturbed here. The extremeties they went to to follow through with this is pure cold blooded killing. Obvioulsy thought out and planned.

Posted by: Mozez at November 18, 2005 11:31 AM

tdo,
As a liberal person who looks forward to Kolb spending the rest of her life behind bars, I take umbrage to your ignorant (not stupid, there is a difference) comment.

Liberals and conservatives alike can say stupid things and make bad decisions, which I very much believe Hurty has done multiple times in the past few days. Maybe Hurty had an agenda going into the trial, maybe he didn't. Jeff Terronez will need to do more homework during jury selection the next time around.

And of course Fox will be all over this. You had better let Bill O'Reilly know all about this so he can attack Hurty (and Terronez while he's at it) the same way he attacked Bill Davis a while back.

If Hurty were pro-Bush, pro-war, anti-gay, etc, you probably would be lauding his "standing up for the facts", "not making his own intrepretation of the law" and "fighting a weak minded (probably liberal) jury".

As for the trial, it will go to another county (as it should have from the get-go given all the exposure) and they will find Kolb guilty.

Posted by: t at November 18, 2005 11:34 AM

t brings up something I've been thinking about lately. Does Terronez really have the legal chops needed for this job, or did (does? he ain't no Marshall Douglas) he just know which Politburo butts to smooch?

But more than anything, this case reminds me of the local case that turned me from pro-death penalty to anti-death penalty. For the life of me now, I can't remember the name of the defendant, but it was the black guy that (allegedly hee!hee!) killed a little white girl, then took her to Iowa and attempted to burn her body. I was not on the jury, but from the accounts in local media, witnesses saw him go into an abandoned Rock Island industrial building with the girl, then saw him exit the building without the girl, but with her bloody clothing. But the same thing happened as with Kolb----a juror (a black female, I think) decided she would "send a message" (her words, not mine) and find the defendant (jeez! I wish I could remember his name!) not guilty. This was a death penalty case and right then and there, I decided that the death penalty was too capricious (at least as applied) to be useful.

Posted by: paladin at November 18, 2005 11:51 AM

Hi paladin,

I think it's the Stanley Liggins case you're referring to. He murdered Jennifer Lewis in the early 90s if I recall correctly.

I'm actually for the death penalty. One or two people with an agenda can slip by selection and cause a mistrial but I think getting 12 to slip by like that is unlikely and if it did happen I'm sure it could be grounds for an appeal.

Posted by: t at November 18, 2005 12:12 PM

Thanks for the memory jog t, you nailed it. I don't even remember what became of Stanley Liggins, but that trial changed my outlook on the death penalty forever.

Posted by: paladin at November 18, 2005 12:24 PM

Paladin, I think you convoluted two cases. As t says, Stanley Liggins killed Jennifer Lewis and burned her body in Iowa.

The abandoned industrial building case was Larry Simpson, who killed 5-year-old Amber Sutton.

Simpson was convicted (first time DNA evidence used in R.I. County), but jury voted 10-2 against the death penalty. Simpson's doing life plus forever. Here's the story that ran in the Dispatch/Argus after the vote against the death penalty: JURORS IN SIMPSON TRIAL STILL STUNNED BY DECISION

The Liggins case is from 1990, beyond the reach of our electronic archives. But I did find a 1999 story: Judge denies third murder trial for Liggins.

Posted by: jcb at November 18, 2005 01:10 PM

Hurty is looking for his 15 minutes of fame & should be jailed for stupidity. Another jury will bring more pain to Adrienne Reynolds' family & cost the taxpayers more money. Who in their right mind could possibly think that Sarah Kolb is innocent? It seems like an open & shut case to most people who have been following the story since January 21st. I believe this case should have been transferred to another county due to all of the media attention it has receive din this area.

Posted by: anonymous at November 18, 2005 01:21 PM

How pathetic is it that there are so many white girls murdered (alleged) by black men that I can't remember which is which? Thanks for the links jcb, I'm thinking now that it was the Simpson trial that turned me against the death penalty, but so what? The story you linked said that the jury voted down (10 to 2) DNA evidence.

Back in the day, I had regular dealings with attorneys. One day I saw a Kewanee attorney at the Rock Island County Courthouse and asked him what he was doing in Rock Island. He said in order for his (murdering) client to get a "break" he had to come to the urban RI County, because Henry County jurors would have a dim view of what his client's transgressions. So true.

Posted by: paladin at November 18, 2005 02:00 PM

anonymous @1:12 p.m. thinks the Kolb case should have been a slam-dunk. So do I. Who will look to Terronez and ask what went wrong? Will Terronez be held accountable in the first big trial of his career? Inquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: paladin at November 18, 2005 02:12 PM

Good point paladin but in my opinion, Mr. Houty seems like a typical "bleeding heart liberal".

This case was too much of a "slam-dunk" for Terronez and maybe he got lazy. I don't think we will ever find out what actually happened and why but it does make for interesting conversation.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 02:27 PM

I think Terronez's biggest mistake was not showing the pictures of the crime scene to the jury.
He really needed to show the brutality that these kids held in their hearts and minds.

I know that may have been tough on the family but sometimes you need to bring out the big guns to get your point across.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 02:31 PM

Liberal, smibleral, this is just another example of the extreme racism of the justice system.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 03:15 PM

Racism? Meanwhile, hot off the wires:

"A civil jury has found actor Robert Blake responsible for the slaying of his wife and ordered him to pay $30 million in damages."

Of course, a California criminal jury couldn't manage to find him guilty of murder. Hurty is, of course, a transplant from southern California.

The "he's a bleeding heart liberal" argument isn't as looney as it may sound to some of you. The real point would require too much electronic ink to ponder here in John's blog: Namely, the sacrifice of public virtue to relativistic thinking (exchange "the public good" for "whatever anybody wants to think is true and right, if only for them, if only for this moment, and therefore as true as anything else -- the compelling evidence, logic and ordinary common sense in a brutal murder trial, for example").

It's why people in La La Land can't figure out whether OJ, Michael Jackson, Robert Blake, Phil Spector or the pop star of the week is innocent or guilty.

People blinded by agendas -- liberal or conservative -- filter everything through a matrix of preconceptions and biases.

Unlike us, of course.

I've heard people say, "Oh, we can't condem Hurty for doing his civic duty and doing what we asked him to do, render an opinion."

To which I say: Yes, we can. The man has proven himself to be a fool, and at great expense to the public good. Kolb said she was going to kill Reyonlds; she wrote she was going to kill Reynolds; she initiated the attack that ended in the girl's death and dismemberment. A fellow prisoner said she admitted the crime.

There is no defense for Hurty. None.

M.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 03:41 PM

Oh, my gawd, this is the best yet! From the Locust Street blog:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001027072914/hurty.com/mh_actor.htm

The guy has a resume as an ACTOR. Advanced graduate traing in San Francisco. His skills include ballet.

My sympathy for the prosecution is fast slipping away. Next we're going to discover he was wearing a "Free The Gitmo Prisoners" protest button during voir dire.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 03:48 PM

Who was the prosecutor anyway, Barry Zukerkorn? I hear he's good.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 04:35 PM

Actually,
It was that damn Bob Loblaw.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 18, 2005 05:13 PM

Terronez was right not to show the crime scene photos to the jury. A few years ago, one of the Illinois appellate courts overturned a murder conviction because the prosecutor showed grisly crime scene photos. The court decided the pictures were too inflammatory since they didn't illustrate the cause of death. The Reynolds' photos didn't show the cause of death, either.

That aside, I think Terronez screwed up in letting this Hurty character slip past him.

Posted by: Me at November 18, 2005 06:13 PM

Beg to differ.

Whatever Mr. Hurtys underlined motivation is. It is sad that only one juror was unable to find the defendant guilty of murder. I am not a bleeding heart liberal or radical right wing conservative. Yes she ranted and raved about what she would do.You must ask yourself what people who react in that manner usually do? Nothing. The fact is, women almost never kill women in America and I would assume the world. She no doubt is not very intelligent. She no doubt is dishonest (saying that she didnt say she would kill her), but her testimony rings true in terms of not committing the actual act. Im not saying women dont kill, just not usually other women. Im not an expert, but it looks more like conspiracy to commit murder or some similar charge that does require her to have actually struck the fatal blow.
Quote from QCOnline=
Mistrial declared in teen accused of killing schoolmate
Terronez said Gregory held Reynolds' arms while Kolb choked her until she was unconscious but still breathing. He said Gregory then "put a belt around her neck and finished what Sarah Kolb had started."

"finished what Sarah Kolb had started."
"still breathing"
If we are not going to follow the law and just "do whats right". Then lets just burn her at the stake in the District and call it a day.

Most victims and perpetrators in homicides are male
Male offender/Male victim 65.1%
Male offender/Female victim 22.6%
Female offender/Male victim 9.9%
Female offender/Female victim 2.4%

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gender.htm

Posted by: Science7 at November 18, 2005 07:36 PM

Who is paying for Sara Kolb's attorney? If the state is, why. She is a minor. Shouldn't her parents be responsible for this? Also, I have been amazed at the little emotion shown by those participating in the trial and the family members of the defendant.

Posted by: dw at November 18, 2005 10:30 PM

Everyone facing a felony charge is entitled to free representation if they are unable to reasonably afford one. It doesn't matter if they're a minor or a nonogenarian, everyone is entitled to a vigorous and competent defense, at least in theory.

Posted by: TID at November 19, 2005 01:56 AM

I think Sarah's phone record should be checked.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 19, 2005 12:09 PM

Has there been any detailed reporting as to what Hurty said were his reasons for believing that the prosecution didn't make its case?



To the person who suggests that Sarah's phone records should be checked -- doesn't it seem like that would come under the heading of "detective work 101?" If the police didn't check the records, I might have doubts about the prosecution's case, based on sloppy investigation. Of course that may not have come up in court.



To Science7 -- Your statistics about the probability of a woman killing a woman raises an interesting point. With only a 2.4% likelihood, it seems like a long shot, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen and that Kolb is not guilty. The interesting thing to me, is that it seems like the occurrence of an 11 to 1 jury verdict would be very unusual, but even if it's rare, it's possible that the one juror could be right and the other 11 are wrong.



Another thing that seems unlikely to me is that Hurty would have done this just to push his political agenda. I don't see any fit between what he's said about the case and the issues that have been raised about his politics. From what I've seen that he's written (the letters from the QC Times) and the interview I saw on TV, I'd have to say I have a reasonable doubt he went into this trial looking for publicity. He doesn't seem to be that dumb.

Posted by: bd at November 20, 2005 12:40 AM

It seems to me, that MARK HURTY had an agenda PERIOD. He immediately posts that he will have comments within days on "theatre of my mind"

Oddly, he then SHUTS DOWN the sites, anything that could lead a person with any sense to read, and determine he is "out of his mind"

I firmly believe, he was out to make a political statement from the moment he KNEW he was being selected for the KOLB trial. Get a clue MARK. You are a complete idiot. California's average IQ jumped significantly when YOU left. Do us a favor, take the average back DOWN, LEAVE.


When the new jury (minus a complete idiot like yourself) convenes, and finds her guilty (because she still has blood on her hands) your 15 minutes of fame will be over. Then you will be desperately seeking a new "cause" I pray the cause is back in California, YOU MORON.

Posted by: Charlie Chan at November 22, 2005 10:47 AM

Funny, all the sites with MARKS moronic views are getting SHUT DOWN. About time. I tried the link to the losers resume listing acting, yeah, he acted like he had a brain to get onto the jury. That didnt last long. I think idiots like him have MORE sympathy for the criminals than the victims.

Sarah KOLB will hopefully never see the light of day, never touch the green grass on a sunny day. She shouldnt, since she DENIED Adrianne Reynolds from living her life.

Posted by: Mark is an IDIOT at November 22, 2005 10:54 AM

Not surprising that Mr. Hurty shut down his sites, given the hot-worded tenor of some of the questions and criticisms directed his way. Why deal with it, for doing what he saw as right.

I am disappointed he didn't post the "detailed explanation of the jury deliberation process", as he said on the site he would. Thought it might aid understanding of what he saw that no one else did.


Posted by: jcb at November 24, 2005 04:49 PM

Funny thing is, MARK cant truthfully say what happened in the "deliberation process" not truthfully anyway.

Suppose he will state that he nominated HIMSELF for jury foreman? Come on MARK face up to the truth.

No vote ever took place BECAUSE you wouldnt LET THEM VOTE. The truth came out scumbag idiot.

Posted by: Truth Serum at November 29, 2005 09:46 PM

when someone writes in their book at school and says im going to kill her and 4 hours later she's dead how much more do you need to understand intent. i hope mark hurty never has to live our nightmare.he will have his judgement day with god someday.can you live with that mark. an innocent girl is dead and you dont understand. go back to school.

Posted by: joanna reynolds at December 8, 2005 02:33 PM

Sarah is guilty as can be, send her up the river.

Posted by: about time at February 28, 2006 09:02 PM

SO, Mark, you were proven totally ignorant.

Justice prevailed in the end.

Posted by: Mark is an IDIOT at April 30, 2006 02:50 PM